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Search Results 0 to 49 of about 53 (some duplicates have been removed)
MSNBC
Oct 1, 2012 7:00pm PDT
. this is a big, big debate on wednesday night. this is much bigger than the mccain-obama debate. >> today mitt romney traveled from boston to colorado where the debate will be held as a major player in romney's fund raiser confirmed to fox business that a few new york donors have backed away from financial commitments to the romney campaign and instead said they will spend their money to help the republicans hold on to the house of represents and pick up seats in the senate. the debates will be very important, said one person with knowledge of the matter. if romney does well, that money could come back. >>> new jersey's governor, chris christie the current front runner for the presidential nomination 2016 has decided his job is to state the obvious. >> it's a huge night. we've had a bad couple of weeks and we want to turn this around and if you want to turn it around you've got to perform on the stage. they try to say the president is not that good a debater or mitt romney is a little scared of the president. those are the professional consultants and politicians who get paid to spin you guys.
FOX News
Oct 1, 2012 3:00pm PDT
. >> obama is a gifted speaker. he has been on the national stage for many years. experienceed debater. he has done the debates before. this is mitt's first time on this stage. >> romney campaign was left to slap itself in the forehead when governor chris christie apparently didn't get the expectations memo. >> wednesday night is the restart of the campaign, i think you will see the numbers start to move right back in the other direction. thursday morning, the entire narrative of the race will change. >> reporter: in truth, debates rarely move polls in a significant ways. one notable exception was in 2000. when -- >> that's what a governor gets to do. >> dismissive al gore threw away a five-point lead in the course of three debates. >> romney advisors are just hoping for a solid performance. no knock-outs on wednesday night. >> i don't think one event is going to make or break this campaign. >> romney advisors told me they don't expect that they could level knock-out blow against president obama. the skilled debaters such as he is. always playing the expectation game. bret? >> bret: john,
CNN
Oct 4, 2012 4:00am PDT
in the debate was when he contrasted the two economic approaches. president obama is much more ke keeping with president clinton. it's a balanced approach. and mitt romney is still waving around the magic wand, that if you cut taxes for millionaires and billionaires, that grows jobs rather than deficits. and we know that's not true. so he did have an elevated level of debate. and fortunately, we have a few more rounds. >> well, i'll tell you, i'll use the word skated and danced and tap danced, but those are not the adjectives that people who watched the debate, frankly, on both sides of the aisle, that were using. they felt that governor romney was aggressive, assertive, and came to play. sort of the opposite for president obama. are you worried that people who did not see the debate, which will be the majority, maybe the majority of the people who will now be voters going to the polls, that this will affect them as well? that, you know, this means a big change in poll numbers, which have of late been favoring the president? >> i don't believe that you'll see a fundamental change in the d
CNN
Sep 30, 2012 5:00am PDT
week is the looming showdown between president obama and mitt romney. a debate happening that takes place wednesday night. president obama is using john kerry as his practice partner. the massachusetts senator is portraiting the former massachusetts governor who is mitt romney, and romney is using ron portman as his obama. paul steinhauser has more on their practice sessions. >> reporter: good morning, gary. you know, it's pretty obvious. one will definitely dominate this week in the race for the white hoe. >> i'm looking forward to the debates. >> reporter: and the first of the three showdowns comes wednesday night when president obama and republican nominee mitt romney face off in denver. both candidates have a lot on the line, especially the gop challenger, who a few days ago gave some insight into his debate preps. >> it's great to have senator rob portman. you know, he debates me from time to time. he is playing barack obama in these mock debates we have. i don't like him very much anymore, all right? he keeps on beating me up and i keep on going away shaking my head. >> report
CNN
Oct 4, 2012 1:00pm PDT
, president obama back on the campaign trail after a lackluster debate performance. he's about to speak in madison, wisconsin. we're going to hear from him live this hour as he tries to recover. also, we'll hear live from mitt romney. he's now campaigning with new energy and momentum after his showing in the debate last night. plus, big bird thrust into campaign politics and on the defensive. i'm wolf blitzer. you're in "the situation room." >>> only 33 days to election and an entirely new dynamic in the battle between president obama and mitt romney. the republican nominee is widely seen as the winner of last night's debate while even the president's strongest supporters now concede he was not at the top of his game. and now the president is back out there on the campaign trail. he's getting ready to speak at a rally over at the university of wisconsin in madison. we're goingo be hearing from him live this hour. but first, listen to what he said about mitt romney at a rally earlier today before he left denver. >> when i got on to the stage, i met this very spirited fellow who claimed t
CNN
Oct 4, 2012 4:00pm EDT
. gloria, how damaging was this debate to president obama last night? >> i think we have to let the polls come in. and we'll let the voters decide. but i think you saw from the way the president was behaving on the stump this morning that even he knows that this was a pretty damaging debate for him. look, mitt romney showed up as somebody who was reasonable, as somebody who criticized the president while being respectful of the president. and as somebody those independent voters, those undecided voters, those persuadable voters could take a look at and say, you know, i could see him as a plausible president. just by being there mitt romney was elevated to the level of the president. and he effectively i would have to say took charge of the debate. and the president just sort of did not really push him or force him or challenge him the way we just saw on the stump right now. >> i was pretty surprised by that myself. >> yeah. >> so what's the major lessons the president should be learning from his performance last night? >> well, i think the lesson is that you've got to pay attention to wha
CNN
Oct 3, 2012 1:00pm PDT
at the debate hall. president obama's expected to arrive in denver any minute as well. we'll be talking with top supporters of each candidate. the former new york city mayor rudy giuliani, he'll join us live this hour. also we'll be hearing from both candidates' wives in special cnn interviews. today, by the way, is the obama's 20th wedding anniversary. so what's it like spending the night with the romneys? i'm wolf blitzer, you're in "the situation room." >>> 34 days from the presidential election but much more importantly right now at least right now we've reached what may be the most decisive night of the 2012 campaign, the first presidential debate at the university of denver. after weeks of downplaying expectations, mitt romney's campaign insiders are finally opening up about what they really think can be accomplished tonight. cnn's national political correspondent jim acosta is in denver getting ready to set the scene. jim. >> reporter: wolf, the romney campaign sees the polls moving in their directions. one of the top priorities tonight is to maintain that trajectory. the romney campaign
CNN
Oct 3, 2012 7:00am EDT
-up -- >> like high-five. >>> back to our starting point. tonight is debate night between president obama and mitt romney. here is a live look at debate hall at university of denver. we'll again with our debate expert, brett o'donnell of o'donnell and associates, he advised mr. romney earlier this year, coached him in what was considered to be his most successful debate in the premarry in the state of florida. >> wouldn't it be nice if people didn't make accusations somewhere else they weren't willing to defend here? >> nice to see you again. not to have you next to us in the studio but great to see you. >> good to see you. >> let's walk through what we can expect tonight. i know you're not coaching either candidate. what would your advice be? mitt romney must do what and not do what? president obama must do what and not do what? >> sure. governor romney has to make the debate about the president's economic policies and he has to connect those to the economic conditions we're in now. right now, people believe the economy is bad, but they're not blaming the president for it. tonight govern
FOX News
Oct 4, 2012 6:00am PDT
the debate was putting out that president obama was watching football. they wanted to give the impression that he wasn't obsessed with the debate. he wasn't going to be overprepared to project an air of copy dense and lower expectations. in this instance they may have made a mistake doing that because the president played down to most those expectations. bill: debate number two, do you think should wipe the floor again? it's a contrary view, but is that an effect? >> i don't think pope he is still president and you will have a media narrative that want the president to recover here that's going to want the president to do better than he did this time. i think the president will have a difficult task. on the one hand he's got to be tougher and challenge mitt romney. on the other, he's still president. he can't seem to be beneath the office of the presidency. bill: thank you. steven hayes in washington. there is so much more to talk about and we shall with martha. martha: moral issues came up also how governor romney tide this to the economic debate. also, a few laughs. southbound wouldn't
MSNBC
Oct 1, 2012 7:00am PDT
to move for obama, it was during the debates. specifically he made the case then right or wrong that he was a better steward of the economy than john mccain in troubled times. romney's got to make that case in 2012. >> little different when you're running against an incumbent. right? there's not a direct parallel there. >> look at the transcript. he was running against president bush. that these set of economic policies are wrong and i have a compelling vision. whether he can do that is another story. >> your colleague e.j. deion wrote journalists are in search of defining moments and game changers. by this standard, romney needs to game changer. obama can live quite happily without one. so do you think that mitt romney needs to have a big moment or if he is perceived to have won will at least give republicans some momentum. is that really the most reasonable thing to hope for? >> well, certainly it will. if the race were sort of fixed in time right now, everybody assumes that obama would win. in many ways that's happening because of early voting all right. so romney needs to change the
MSNBC
Oct 1, 2012 10:00am EDT
debate and what could be mitt romney's best chance to change the trajectory of the race. president obama is holed up in vegas for two days preparing. mitt romney will be in colorado tonight. the latest poll shows president obama and mitt romney locked in a tight race nationally. but where it counts, those battle ground states, the president still leads. and here's another interesting poll. most people think the president will win the first debate which may be why he's trying to lower expectations. >> i know folks in the media are speculating already on who's going to have the the zingers. governor romney is good. i'm just okay. >> and paul ryan played his own version. >> president obama is a gifted speaker. he's been on the national stage for many years. he's done these kinds of debates before. this is mitt's first time on this kind of a stage. >> but if all candidates are trying to lower expectations, maybe chris christie missed that memo. >> governor romney's going to lay out his vision for a better and greater america for greater opportunity for all of our citizens. and i think that's
CNN
Oct 4, 2012 2:00am PDT
a debate between a rusty president obama and a well rehearsed mitt romney. >> reporter: right out of the gate, it was clear, mitt romney came to play. >> the president has a view very similar to the view he had when he ran four years ago that a bigger government, spending more, taxing more, regulating more, if you will, trickle down government would work. >> reporter: president obama sounded a familiar alarm, warning of romney's been there, done that economics. >> the approach that governor romney is talking about is the same sales pitch made in 2001 and 2003. and we ended up with the slowest job growth in 50 years. >> reporter: but whether it was health care, jobs, or medicare, it was romney who stood out for his aggressive style. >> i just don't know how the president could have come into office facing 23 million people out of work, rising unemployment, an economic crisis at the kitchen table and spend his energy and passion for two years fighting for obama care. >> reporter: the president made his points in a slower, laid back manner, often appearing disengaged. it's not that h
CNN
Oct 5, 2012 4:00am PDT
the debate but bit obama didn't bring it up so he couldn't. this is something he really wanted to distance himself from, soledad, because it has been seen as the source of a lot of problems for mitt romney in the last month. we saw polls widen between president obama and mitt romney especially in key battleground states. but make no mistake the obama campaign is not going to let him get away completely with this reversal. they have been running campaign ads with his own words in the fund-raiser and i think we are going to see them continue to hit him on the 47% and say you know what, this is what we think he accident there's also conversations about an obama flip-flop as well. tell me about that. >> this is kind of a flip-flop, i would say, on enthusiasm or tone. i think whether we were watching president obama on wednesday, it was very much a passive president obama. certainly wasn't what i was expecting, having been object the campaign trail with president obama. he campaigned yesterday in denver in wisconsin and really fired up and really calling mitt romney on what he saw smas of his i
CNN
Sep 29, 2012 2:00pm EDT
barack obama. romney spending a lot of this weekend in debate preparation. the same thing for the president. he's off the campaign trail today, tomorrow he does go out to nevada, but he's spending a lot of this weekend, we believe, behind closed doors getting ready. meanwhile, both campaigns are playing the expectations game, trying to lower the bar for their candidates. even the candidates themselves are doing it. take a listen to mitt romney recently on the campaign trail. >> he's president of the united states, he's a very effective speaker. >> he's a very eloquent speaker, and so i'm sure in the debates, as last time in his debates with senator mccain, he'll be very eloquent. >> it's not only mitt romney and his campaign playing the game. so is the obama campaign. >> what history tells us, that challengers normally win the first debate. just by the fact that they're standing on the stage with the president. that elevates them, and they normally come into these things as underdogs. we're coming into this debate very realistic. mitt romney is likely to win if he plays hi
MSNBC
Sep 30, 2012 9:00am PDT
the bright lights of the debate stage, heralding president obama's talents at going this. i'm curious dana, do you think chris christie went off script earlier today, when he said, come thursday morning, we're going to be talking about the outstanding job that mitt rom y romney. he's supposed to be saying my guy has a speech impediment. >> here comes the comical that reed was talking about. he has to come out attacking and trying to dislodge obama. >> did he emerge from any one of them as a clear winner, dana? >> there wasn't any -- he was solid, but with a couple of exceptions, but in each one you would say he won on points. there was no knockout, he was very skilled at that, but that's not to say that obama isn't. i don't think either of them is sort of the classic college debater. but they're both very capable. i'm going out to denver and getting some popcorn and enjoy the show. >> president obama is meeting with seniors and he's talking about medicare. >> mid romney said at the time were he president in this past, he would sign it into law. sign into law the requirement you all come u
MSNBC
Oct 1, 2012 9:00am PDT
. paul ryan gushed over president obama's skills on the debate stage. >> president obama is a very -- he's a very gifted speaker. the man's been on the national stage for many years. he's an experienced debater. >> shockingly, senior white house adviser david plouffe had the same feelings about governor mitt romney. >> we'd expect it all along that governor romney will have a good night. he's prepared more than any candidate in history and shown himself to be a good debater through the years. >> even the candidates were tamping down expectations yesterday. >> i don't think anyone would suggest the debates aren't important. i can't tell you how important it will be. i don't know what will happen at the debates. >> governor romney is a good debater. i'm just okay. >> the soft performance has gotten so soft it's almost evaporated. but while almost everyone seems to be muting enthusiasm in trying to undersell new jersey governor chris christie is taking a different tack. overselling with gusto. >> come thursday morning, the entire narrative of this race is going to change. we have a candidat
MSNBC
Sep 30, 2012 12:00pm EDT
to prove on wednesday? >> barack obama he and hiss choice would haven't the debate. after all today's polls are up nine points in ohio. it looks like these debates are just the rapids the president has to go through. if he didn't have them, it would be fair sailing. so for mitt romney, these debates are essential. he's going to have to show that he's presidential. so far when he went to the olympic and maybe gaffed and he stumbled with that 44%. they're not sure they can live with the guy for four years so mitt romney has to really be the one that comes out the winner. he's got to score. >> there was a time between the famous kennedy-nixon tapes that there were no televised debates. why are they considered so vital now? >> well, the kennedy-nixon debates created so much attention in 1960. many people think that's why ted kennedy won. if you recall ford made famously the gap that -- and then certainly by 1980, ronald reagan was very behind in the polls was just able to tidal wave over jimmy carter with quips like there you go again in a sort of staged format. since 1980, they have become par
MSNBC
Sep 29, 2012 9:00am PDT
" article talking about the debates in which you quote "republican strategists fretting over obama's recent rise, said the debates could be the last best chance for romney to deliver a decisive blow, change the narrative and steady his campaign." that's quite a tall order, david. sounds like a level of desperation there and desperation then leads to mistakes as we've seen in the past. is that a worry at all for the romney camp? i've heard some analysts say that he needs a hail mary. i mean, is it that dramatic? >> absolutely. the romney camp won't come out and say that. everybody sort of tries to downplay expectations before these things. all eyes are on romney. he's trailing in the polls nationally and in the swing states. he said to his supporters, hey, you know, when i name a running mate and when i'm at my convention you're going to see the bumps. you haven't seen sustained bumps. this is his chance to do it. he's running out of chances. 60 member people could watch these debates. this is a big chance for him. >> the challenger gets a butch just for sharing a stage with the president in
CNN
Oct 5, 2012 4:00pm EDT
the headlines about the obama/romney debate. now calling his 47% remarks completely wrong, but the president never brought up the subject during the debate. what if he would have? n sounds ] ♪ [ watch ticking ] [ engine revs ] come in. ♪ got the coffee. that was fast. we're outta here. ♪ [ engine revs ] ♪ >>> an american worker is killed after opening fire at a hotel in israel. lisa sylvester is monitoring that and some other top stories in "the situation room" right now. what happened, lisa? >> american killed a worker in the red city resort. then barricaded himself in the hotel. israeli soldiers later shot and killed the gunman. the man recently had been laid off at his job at that hotel. turkish state television says a syrian mortar shell landed in turkey today drawing an immediate military response. no injuries were reported. on wednesday turkey answered with artillery after a strike killed five civilians inside turkey. meantime, this is video said to be in the syrian city of homs where opposition activists say syrian war planes and artillery pounded the city again today in the w
FOX News
Oct 1, 2012 6:00pm PDT
think that obama has a very real likelihood of coming out of this debate with people finally late on wednesday evening understanding how big the decision is and how big the choice is, and at that point we'll be in a totally new election. >> sean: you think it could have -- look, it had a big, profound impact. you were down double digits heading into south carolina. two debates you were up double digits. up double digits heading into florida. >> calista says if romney could be as direct with obama as he was with me, he'll do just fine. go back in history. when carter beat ford in the debates, it mattered in 1996. when reagan beats carter in 1980, it really mattered. when reagan stumbled in the first debate in 1984, people were shaken. when reagan came back and brilliantly won the second debate -- >> sean: i'm not going to let my youth and age be an issue in this campaign. >> -- change it changed almost everything overnight. these things can matter. they don't always matter, but they can matter. i would say that the opportunity wednesday night is greater for romney than for obama. a
CNN
Oct 1, 2012 11:00am PDT
as they have done in the last week. president obama is a great debater. the way i recall it, brooke, in the last presidential campaign, debates were not president obama's strengths. in fact, he's a much better speechmaker than he is a debater. and don't forget, he hasn't debated an awful lot lately. when the president of the united states and you're in the oval office, people tend not to debate with you an awful lot. you live in the presidential bubble. he hasn't been on stage with other people challenging him. so in a way, he sort of has got to get used to this routine over and over again, where as mitt romney has been on a debate stage an awful lot of times. >> if i recall, you were in a lot of those debates, he's tough, he's no wallflower that mitt romney. what is his biggest challenge, though? going into wednesday? >> the biggest challenge, i think mitt romney has got to do a couple of things. they're at odds with each other. first thing goehe's got to do i take on president obama directly when it comes to policy. what he has to tell the voters is i've got a better plan for an e
FOX News
Oct 1, 2012 5:00pm PDT
. preparing for the big debate. president obama training in nevada. you may have heard my opponent and i are going to have a debate i'm looking forward to it? >> we are too. >> the media is speculating who is going to have the best zingers, governor romney is a good debater. i'm just okay mitt romney already in denver prepping for wednesday's big event. with us now is fox news senior analyst brit hume. i think the expectations for this debated are too high. people, particularly conservative americans, republicans are kinding expecting mitt romney to go out there and do something. i don't know if that's even possible right now. the public broadly speaking expects mitt romney to win. low expectations i suppose. the history as your comments suggest is that debates don't tend to change the trajectory of a presidential race very much. there has been a few cases where they have but just a few you are looking at this stage if you are a romney voter or fan for something that would change the apparent course of the election which you look at the thing nationally and it appears to be a pretty tigh
MSNBC
Oct 3, 2012 3:00am PDT
? ♪ >>> now, tomorrow is the first of three debates between myself and president obama. and i'm looking forward to having a serious conversation with my opponent about the issues. and as you may have heard, i've also prepared a few zingers for the occasion. for example, when we greet each other on stage before the debate, i'll put my finger on obama's tie and i'll say, hey, there's something on your tie. and then when he looks down, i'll slide my finger from his sternum right up to his nostrils and i'll say, boop. ha, ha, ha. ha, ha, ha, ha. i've also been working on some that's what she said zingers. for instance, when obama is talking during the debate, i'll just interrupt him and say, that's what she said? ha, ha, ha. gets them every time. ha, ha. now, last week my campaign leaked a memo telling everyone to lower their expectations for my performance in these debates because as we all know, barack obama is an extremely gifted speaker. he might even say he's a master debater. that's what she said? ha, ha, ha. zing. you got zing. you got zing. >> that's what she said? oh, my god, i lov
MSNBC
Oct 3, 2012 6:00am EDT
president obama to come back to the 47% figure again and again in tonight's debate. >> we're going to see that tonight for sure. mike allen, look forward to talking to you about it tomorrow morning. thanks so much, mike. >> thank you for your coverage. >>> coming up, one game left in the major league season. a lot of question marks still in the playoff picture. who better to ask? we woke him up early. our friend peter gammons joins us next on "morning joe." ♪ [ construction sounds ] ♪ [ watch ticking ] [ engine revs ] come in. ♪ got the coffee. that was fast. we're outta here. ♪ [ engine revs ] ♪ this reduced sodium soup says it may help lower cholesterol, how does it work? you just have to eat it as part of your heart healthy diet. step 1. eat the soup. all those veggies and beans, that's what may help lower your cholesterol and -- well that's easy [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup. that's what may help lower your cholesterol and -- well that's easy if we want to improve our schools... ...what should we invest in? maybe new buildings? what about updated eq
CNN
Oct 3, 2012 11:00am PDT
're going to be watching the debate, not to be outdone here behind the red curtain, barack obama has the same kd of setup. and, of course, these two studios, butt up against the spin room, the spin room is where we see surrogates, some top campaign officials that come after the debate and they're going to try to tell us why they think their candidate won. >> mark preston living the veil for us. thank you. >>> economists and former republican presidential adviser ben stein says no one knows mitt romney. his comments sparking quite the reaction. ben joins me live next. i've discovered gold. [ female announcer ] new roc® retinol correxion max. the power of roc® retinol is intensified with a serum. it's proven to be 4x better at smoothing lines and deep wrinkles than professional treatments. roc® max for maximum results. and deep wrinkles than professional treatments. ♪ forz(power!) andiamo! andiamo! (let's go! let's go!) avanti! avanti! (keep going! keep going!) hahaha...hahahaha! you know ronny, folks who save hundreds of dollars by switching to geico sure are happy. and how happy
FOX News
Oct 1, 2012 10:00am PDT
shoulder to hold a rally in which he will come pair and contrast his policies with those of obama. he will say americans have a choice in this campaign and romney would be better choice than obama. his campaign is looking for a solid performance. they say it would be impossible against a skilled debater like barack obama to hit knockout punches. but according to chris christie of new jersey he says this could be a game changer. >> wednesday night is the restart of this campaign. i think you will see those numbers move right back in the other direction. showers day morning the entire narrative of this race will change. >> reporter: obviously chris christie did not get the memo from the romney campaign that you are supposed to build up he can takes for your opponent. >> i don't think one event is going to make or break this campaign. president obama is a very gifted speaker. the man has been on the national stage or many years. he has done these kinds of debates before. this is mitt's first time on this kind of a stage. >> reporter: president obama has done this 8 times. governor romney
FOX News
Sep 28, 2012 9:00pm EDT
, that's the romney i want. >> the one-on-one debate forum is not necessarily president obama's best either. they've been after him for $700 million on character. the american people get 90 minutes to see whether or not that's real. >> i want to see the mitt romney that got enraged when obama said you didn't build that and came out and defended small
MSNBC
Sep 30, 2012 7:00am PDT
. because with the first presidential debate coming up wednesday, governor romney and president obama will be gearing up for a fight. that's a good thing. we still need the debates. it's a so krat i can sem nor of sorts for the country having the candidates stand behind their podiums forced to answer for nair proposals. we get to see how the ideas stand up under questioning before you decide. at least for some of us, before we vote. here with me today is msnbc c contributor for the blog. latino.com's victoria did he francesco soto. she's a fellow at the university of texas. jam al simpsons and indicate en dawson and gop sharm. thanks for being here. >> thank up. >>> it's going to be october, last month, final push, debates. what are we going to see in the debates in. >> you don't see the two of these people standing on the stage, used their practice lines. studying up. we haven't seen much of mitt romney on the campaign trail. he's been studying for this. >> you think that's what he's been doing, studying, not fundraising? >> totally, he's been studying. he's got to make something wor
FOX News
Sep 28, 2012 6:00pm PDT
through obama tax hikes on people in the middle class. >> let me just say that next wednesday night, this is it. they need to turn this campaign around. debates are vehicles of challengers. this is his chance to do this. >> sean: we need the mitt romney that showed up after losing south carolina, where he went into that state up double digits, and came out winning by double digits -- i'm sorry -- lost by double digits, then went to florida and had two debates with newt, that's the romney i want. >> the one-on-one debate forum is not necessarily president obama's best either. they've been after him for $700 million on character. the american people get 90 minutes to see whether or not that's real. >> i want to see the mitt romney that got enraged when obama said you didn't build that and came out and defended small businesses, defended people -- >> sean: apologizing for success. >> bold, take no nonsense, pull no punches. that's what i want. >> sean: good to see you guys. hour goes by too fast. we need another hour. thanks for being with us. let not your heart be troubled. have a goo
Search Results 0 to 49 of about 53 (some duplicates have been removed)